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C-Gold : New Gold Based E-Currency or Hoax ?
I’d recently been made aware of a new E-Gold clone called C-Gold. The website is a dead ringer ripoff of E-Gold’s website, right down to the copy and pasted text. The owners of C-Gold claim that their payment processor is backed by gold, much as E-Gold or Pecunix are. That’s not in dispute because they actually have provided a tiny bit of transparency in allowing users to see where and how much bullion they have in storage. They have also openly stated the business is located outside of the United States in the Republic of the Seychelles with their main headquarters located in Penang, Malaysia. Both details do check out and the servers are not located inside the United States as well.
The thing that has me the most worried about C-Gold is that one of their operatives, a person who uses the name “Robert” has been a busy little beaver making posts such as the one below at TalkGold fourms which is a well known haven for scammers and run by scammers who are believed to be involved in operating several former ponzi schemes (as well as a new one that is just being launched). Talkgold forum is also rumoured to have ties to the underground crime organization ShadowCrew which was taken down by the Secret Service in 2004. My uneasiness comes from the fact, why would an honest, reputable payment processor bother to waste the time to have one of their founders or operatives post at a forum such as Talkgold. Regardless of the indictment against E-Gold, nobody ever saw the owners of E-gold, Dr. Douglas Jackson or Barry Downey ever, ever posting at a forum such as Talkgold. That forum exists only as a purveyor of ponzi and pyramid schemes, so it’s no suprise it gets my radar going when I see posts such as this one…
| To avoid neverending discussions and speculations, here is how the management of Private Gold Equities Exchange Limited and thus of c-gold.com views Investment programs and games, etc.:
(1) No Ponzis, Pyramid schemes, etc. (2) Investment programs that have merit and a certain probability of success are accepted, if - (3) No Games of Chance, ie. no gambling, unless the operation is licensed in the location of residence to operate online gaming sites, AND takes reasonable measures to ensure that people whose jurisdictions of residence forbid them in gambling online can not access the site. In other words, legitimate casinos are fine, as long as they screen their users and block those that shouldn’t be there. (4) We will generally tolerate private membership clubs, as long as they do not break the laws of the jurisdictions their members reside in. This does include investment clubs, savings associations, etc. (5) We will not tolerate fraud and con artists. Justified complaints will get accounts suspended and reinstatement will only be done after the complaint is settled. However, the decission of what constitutes a justified complaint is ours, and ours alone. We will typically take the side of the merchant when justification is in doubt. A personal comment regarding the above is that after all these years in Asia, more than half my life, to be exact, I am well aware of amazing business opportunities and that smart operators could well command margins of several 100% in their business, if they had the money. I also realize that in many locations such operators couldn’t get traditional funding or financing, simply because of the way things work there. That is why c-gold.com will outright disallow all types of investments, as that would be very much in contradiction of our stong beliefs in the merits of capitalism. However, outfits that offer 50% a day, or even 500% per month and don’t have a clear and plausible way to achieve these returns, need not apply. If they have a clear and plausible way to make 500% per month, I’ll buy them out myself, on the spot ;o) Cheers, |
It is to be noted that Andy, the scammer behind XLO/TFT/XLOTwo and CyberspaceAtm has registered his domains through these people, so if thery really were against fraud, why don’t they start by removing their anonymous domain registration and hosting services that are used by ponzi and pyramid scheme operators ?
Again, when I read the post above, something just does not sit right with me. Possibly I’ve read far too many updates from autosurf and hyip admins or too many updates from payment processors that went *poof* but either way, this guy Robert’s posts smack of all the phoniness, lies, dishonesty and general bulls*it that we’ve all heard over and over again for years since we stumbled eyes wide open into this den of iniquities. The more you hear, the less believable it all becomes and eventually one can’t help but become eternally jaded to these type of diatribes, causing one to put on your armour, pick up a sword and a shield and start defending yourself against the con artists and lowlifes.
Long and short of it: Would I use C-Gold? Hell no. With all the other gold based processors out there, I don’t know why anybody would fall for a processor that sends their people into Talkgold forums to drum up business or to post their TOS.
Big thumbs down on this one.
by University Update - C# - C-Gold : New Gold Based E-Currency or Hoax ?
[…] YouTube Link to Article c# C-Gold : New Gold Based E-Currency or Hoax ? » Posted at Code4Gold - Make Money Online, Work at Home, Digital Currencies and Fraud Alerts on Saturday, July 21, 2007 I’d recently been made aware of a new E-Gold clone called C-Gold. The website is a dead ringer ripoff of E-Gold’s website, right down to the copy and pasted text. The owners of C-Gold claim that their payment processor is backed by gold, much as E-Gold or Pecunix are View Entire Article » […]
by Mark Herpel
I often enjoy reading your blog, but not so much today! C-gold was created by Robert Ziegler and I think I spelled that correct. He operates a lot of other businesses and all you have to do is look them up in the GDCA (www.gdcaonline.org) they all are in good standing and have been or years and years.
C-gold has been the topic of discussion on the gold-silver-crypto email list from www.rayservers.com for a month or so now, there is a ton of information on how it works, input from DGC old school pros and more. I’ve done two detailed posts on c-gold at DMW:
Introducing C-gold Digital Gold Currency July 7th
C-gold’s Star Is On The Rise July 16th
Also you can find some very good discussion on c-gold over on NOBS, hyipblog.nobshyip.net/#comments
Here is the archive for c-gold discussion on gold-silver-crypto, you can read up on why its different and also why the creator choose that e-gold clone type look. http://news.gmane.org/
We all pretty much has your same knee jerk reaction the first time we saw the design, but he has a good reason to use it and tells us why. It’s hard to say why anyone would pick c-gold over existing stars like Webmoney or Pecunix, but each to his own. Personally I like the people behind the deal much more than the design and also I like their physical location so you can bail in or out easily.
Mark
by C4G
Mark, did you actually read the article?
To begin with GDCA *is not* an accredited authority on digital currency, they are just another website. They *do not* have any government agencies backing them nor are they the last word in DGC.
rayservers is just another scammers haven. They teach anonymity as a means to security and any fool knows only scammers need anonymity to pull off their crimes. There’s not a complete page on the rayservers.com website, each page is merely a doorway into more outdated information. I’d hardly find anything credible about them as well.
Again, as a model, I humbly suggest a comparison to E-Gold regarding processors or digital currencies. The company has been cmpletely transparent since 1997; whois info has correct contact info and not private, contact address openly available on one click and a phone number for contact.
I didn’t notice a phone number anywhere on C-Gold website. Second, they sell anonymous domain registration and hosting to scammers. This is not a legit business, pocketing money from scammers so they can remain anonymous.
I really don’t think you understand the nature of *money* and/or digital currencies. I’m sorry, transparency is mandatory. Additionally, any digital currency that is pimping itself on Talkgold forums is definitely operating on a shady level to begin with.
by Jenn
It is a scam my dear,lots have started there work like this and will vanish with your money in overnight
E-gold has a strong future nevertheless.But if something happen to e-gold
the alternative to e-gold should be e-bullion.
C-gold just copied everything of e-gold and you are telling its good,i am astonished if a site is not finding any solution for his site development and ultimately he stoles the script of e-gold,how could it be better?
I am afraid the base of c-gold is weak,and we shall continue with e-gold and should give him support to develop.
Infos in theese scammers
http://www.indymedia.org/pt/2006/11/874085.shtml
by td
Gees Jenn you will have to do better than that the whole thing is a bunch of nonsense links that don’t make a point whoever put that mess together is obviously someone that thinks if a Kangaroo called skippy or John is jumping out of whack that all skippys and Johns are jumping out of whack Please do be more specific and show us what there concerned you?lol
As for c-gold posting their policy well I thought the first two lines kinda explained why they did. Least it did to me.
Is it important where it was posted no.
Well I suppose those that can see past their nose will keep on and those that can’t will keep studying their nose or someone elses.
by Robert
Well, I actually google c-gold.com every morning, view new posts about it, and then comment when I feel that some poster is under a mistaken impression…
That is also why I am now posting here. I always thought that having one of the founders of a currency more accessible is a good thing, and having him actually state what is policy, rather than wiggle around questions is a sign of transparency.
Privacy. C-gold.com wants scans of ID and utility bills. Of course, we won’t share that data with third parties, unless compelled by a competent court do so, or unless we have reasonable grounds to believe that someone is abusing the system for unlawful activities.
Hosting & Domains. Completely separate from c-gold.com
Still, a similar philosophy, namely free market capitalism.
If we get a valid complaint together with evidence that any of our hosting, server and/or domain clients is in breach of our TOS (ie. committing unlawful acts), we shut them down in a hurry.
Need for privacy. You say that there is none, unless someone is planning to scam others. How about an Iraqi message board about missing persons under Saddam? An underground help network for white farmers in Zimbabwe 2002, a news site that shows what is really happening in the US, a service site that helps Iranian youths to buy and sell stuff online without credit cards? Each of the operators of these sites are risking major repercussions, if not their lives, if their Identity was known to the repressive regimes they live in.
Sure, if you are living in the West and have nothing to hide, maybe you don’t need privacy. But need and right are to different things. We help people to exercise their God-given right to privacy. That in itself is a good thing, is it not?
And we do crack down on crooks that abuse our services.
I know that this is what crooks say themselves, and it’s impossible to tell the crooks from honest operators by their words alone. On the other hand, we have been around longer than most, use our actual names, and our IDs are a matter of public record in duly registered company records. CyberFrontier Corp, Delaware, CYFROCA$H Inc, Wyoming. Go and have a look.
As the transparency of c-gold.com, well, who else is disclosing bar details? Where else can you make an appointment to inspect bars? Where else can you actually redeem a bar and have it shipped to you?
Cheers,
Robert.
by C4G
Scans of ID and utility bills? Are you kidding me? Can you say Emocash or CEPTrust??? Have you even read anything else on this blog regarding fraud warnings ?? We’ve always been 100% against any foreign operation that requires US Citizens to send personal information. Again, I would strongly advise readers of this blog to take caution against sending personal information to foreign or domestic entities linked to ponzi or pyramid schemes.
In regards to your statements…
(1) No Ponzis, Pyramid schemes, etc.
(5) We will not tolerate fraud and con artists.
Well, seeing as your business proports ethics regarding C-Gold, how about stepping up to the plate withyour domain registration and hosting business. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out this domain registered with you is a frau pyramid or ponzi scheme run by a repeat scammer (btw, it’s listed at NoBSHyip Forums as a scam).
Domain: xlotwo.com
Registration provider: CyberFrontier
Registrant
Domain Administrator
CyberFrontier Registry
registry@cyberica.net
Cyfro Associates Sdn Bhd3a-4-07 BJ Complex
Bayan Baru, Penang 11900 MY
+1.6046462019
(FAX)
Maybe you should start cleaning up your act and practice what you preach regarding fraud. You’reallowing scammers to remain anonymous in your domain registration system, yet you want us to believe you are going to TCB in C-Gold???
sorry man, you’re just talking yourself into a hole here..
Scans of ID and utility bills?
by Robert
I have no problem “stepping up to the plate” as you call it, if you actually file a complaint with us about a customer and substantiate it with evidence.
MeNoName@yahoo.com “omg i git scammed”, is unfortunately not enough…
Of course, I didn’t realize that me pointing out that users had to ID themselves would give you immediately a reason to suggest heaven knows what. And if you get off your horse for a second and engage your head, you might agree that there is no alternative. Either we ask for ID and can reasonably protect users against fraudsters, or we run it free for all, ala e-gold, and sooner or later the scamsters will be the main users as well. When that happens everyone’s gold would be at risk.
By the way, while you are slandering foreigners, 82% of internet fraud is either operated from the US outright, or uses US facilities along the way.
In the end, on the internet, ‘foreign’ or ‘national’, even ‘local’ is not worth one bit. On the web we are all neighbours, and for the record, all but three scammers we shut down in the past two years were sitting right there in the good ole US of A. Probably accross the road from you.
I’ll leave it that, because reasoning doesn’t seem to be appreciated here. After all, you were born right. Your passport says so.
Cheers,
Robert - who refused a green card twice.
by JohnnyQ
I am US born but have no passport. We have drivers lisense here . so what ?
by C4G
Slandering foreigners ?? Can’t you come up with something better than that ? Typical of a feeble minded being to have to resort to cries of slander or racism to try to edge your point across. It appears to me you’re the one bashing US Citizens.
btw, let me rephrase myself. I take it you are unfamiliar with this blog? Why do I say that? Evidently you haven’t seen this post from December…
http://code4gold.com/blog/2006/12/22/black-december-where-do-all-the-scams-come-from/
China and Malaysia lead the 700+ scams documented by us since December 2005.
And FYI, some of us weren’t born in the US or born yesterday Robert. You specifically are ignoring my issue about your company registering domain names for a known scammer, Andy from XLO/TFT who operates CyberspaceAtm. You danced around the issue but in most thinking people’s eyes, you have shown a questionable lack of business ethics.
You just can’t say, we’re going to stop fraud from point A to point B and then turn it off until point E and then turn it back on again. Don’t you get it? Ethics runs the course of your life, business, relationships, families, religion, etc.. If you are lacking ethics in one area of life or business (ie: providing anonymity to known scammers) who is to say when and where you will ever show a truthful ethic.
by Robert
I know I shouldn’t, but I can’t help myself.
You claim I haven’t addressed you complaint about one of our customers. Yet, in the first two lines of my response I wrote:
“..if you actually file a complaint with us about a customer and substantiate it with evidence.
MeNoName@yahoo.com “omg i git scammed”, is unfortunately not enough…”
As to the foreigner bashing, you wrote:
“We’ve always been 100% against any foreign operation that requires US Citizens to send personal information. ”
I read that as “don’t trust foreigners with your data”, which implies that it is okay to trust locals.
Now, to end it all, if you actually read all of my posts to various fora - and, in fact, our website - you might have realized that c-gold is not meant for US citizens to begin with. Sure we accept US users, but they are not our primary target market. Instead, c-gold is meant to be a trade platform for private individuals from across the globe, with focus on the developing world. Says so on our site.
In the end, time will tell. I’m pretty sure c-gold.com will still be around in a decade, long after the US implements capital controls, regulates foreign remittances and tries to somehow get the economy going again… ;o)
Of course, it will then all be the foreigners’ fault.
Cheers,
Robert.
by C4G
Robert, regardless of your desire to turn this into a US vs. The Rest of the World debate, your tactics are inane here.
Nobody has said that non-US countries are not to be trusted. Once again, if you read this blog you’ll see I’m very fond of Webmoney which is a Russian organization. I’m also very happy to deal with GoldEx and Marco because there is an established relationship there. In fact, Marco was hoping I’d still at my home in Florida on his July trip there so we could meet in person.
The fact is you keep eluding my questions about your alleged involvment with Andy from Canada and his XLO programs which are confirmed scams. Why can’t you just answer a question with an answer, not some doubletalk or bullshit ?
I know the Malaysian government is not tolerant (even less tolerant than the US) of ponzi or pyramid schemes coming from within their country especially after their prosecution of Bryan Marsden and his wife. So what makes you think the money your company is making from shielding scammers not unlike Andy makes you legit in Malaysia ? Andy has already *openly* admitted his program are ponzis? Are you dense ?
by mishas
they launch site after e-gold inditted & try to scam people when state is confuse? not to stopping scammer host the site?
for not to be using US?
by Mark Herpel
Well, that’s an interesting discussion.
“”To begin with GDCA *is not* an accredited authority on digital currency, they are just another website. They *do not* have any government agencies backing them nor are they the last word in DGC.”"
>>>>That’s true and I agree its not much but that’s all we have. What do you mean by accredited? A member of the BBB, or a government agency requiring licenses? Self regulatory = A group who makes their own rules and agrees not to break them. What gives a self regulated industry group ‘accreditation’ ? Yes, they are just another web site, however based on the methods used in the DGC industry, web site owners and operators will not be a part of any serious ‘registration’ or verification of background. Large exchange agents have their own private ‘industry’ group, we never hear about, where they exchange fraud and trade info….but its private and has no visible web plaque. We can’t get a majority of web operators to all fall in line and ‘follow’ some set of rules, because of the freedom offered by the Internet and the wide jurisdictions in which all these businesses are located. (and that fact that many are not legally operated and they appear and disappear often)
What the DGC industry DOES have is the GDCA, a self regulated industry group, you join if you wish to ‘prove’ in some small way you are legit, you agree to arbitration and agree that over the months or years you are in business you will accept their criticism, membership basically opens you to criticism on a broader basis from your peers. Its not a BBB type organization that verifies anything, not that the BBB is worth a crap (Stormpay/NetIBA) the GDCA is more of ‘industry’ group so members can know each other and try to prevent scams. I’ll tell you, the GDCA was recognized by the US Treasury department in their 2005 Threat Report as the ’self regulatory’ agency for the industry so it may be ‘weak’ in your eyes, but that’s all the industry has because of how it operates. http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/pdf/mlta.pdf page 35
You can’t get THIS bunch to join and be regulated, I’ve tried, welcome to the Internet. The point I’m making is that Yes, you can join the GDCA and the next week say, “I’m a member send me money” that is bad, we all know that would fall into your ‘not accredited’ authority, but being a member for multiple businesses over 3-4-5 years lends a LOT of reputation for that member. This is the point I’m making, after years and years of his businesses being members, we KNOW who Robert is and how he operates his companies.
Because you don’t agree that one of his webs which operates a domain registration business should offer an ‘anon registration’ setup, you really can’t fault him for being a scammer. That’s like saying the owners of GoDaddy are known kid porn kings, because someone registered a domain once through them. Its flawed logic and does not make sense. Morally, you can say you don’t like how it that part of a domain registration business operates is offensive to you and others but you CERTAINLY can’t make a claim that because someone registering a domain through one of his businesses turns out to be in a gray area, that he offers any operation that is associated with that person. That’s just wacky to try and make that claim.
But getting back to my point, ‘Who’ would you consider to be an accredited group? What does that mean ‘accredited’ and when can I sign up to become accredited because in all honesty, no sarcasim, that is something I would like to become, accredited, so tell me how I can do it…..then maybe I can show others that industry path. WHO can you list here, that you consider, accredited in the DGC industry. I want to know??
Thanks, Mark
by C4G
Mark,
I understand what your saying about the accreditation, and quite honestly I’ve not labelled Robert or C-Gold as “scammers”. Just because Robert’s company has provided a service that can/are exploited by scammers doesn’t make him a scammer through guilt by association. Although ignoring the obvious leaves something to be desired. I did openly state I signed up for a C-Gold account and I did comment that if somebody were to be emulating an E-Gold style interface, C-Gold has done a pretty damn good job.
My questions were rather drawn quite obviously out of the moral ethic issue. In my book, there must be some ethic if somebody is to be handling my money or they need to be licensed, bonded and insured much as the workers at your local bank.
The fact Robert prefers to “turn a blind” eye in certain cases lends one to believe that that same eye will be turned againin the future if the price is right. Again, this is all speculative but anybody who has ever made any money in their life knows that speculation is an art unto itself. If I were here to just write glossy, pretty, sugar coated articles that don’t begin to scratch below the surface, I wouldn’t be here.
by Dollars Blog
C-gold is most certainly a scam. Avoid!
by Cattysha
Dave, you wrote “They have also openly stated the business is located outside of the United States in the Republic of the Seychelles with their main headquarters located in Penang, Malaysia. Both details do check out and the servers are not located inside the United States as well.”
WHERE do those details check out? Where have you seen proof that they are registered to conduct the business that they are conducting?
Brenda
by Spitfire
New information is that they are not even listed as having a license in the country that they are supposed to be said they are in. There are no such records that C-Gold is a license business or a license money transmittor.
http://www.virtualseychelles.sc/pages/vs_ie.htm
http://www.cbs.sc/commercialBanks.html
So, whoever is behind this site is hiding their phone number, and is not telling you the truth where they are located. It is nothing but lies.
by Robert
“In my book, there must be some ethic if somebody is to be handling my money or they need to be licensed, bonded and insured much as the workers at your local bank.”
Oh, so if we are licensed (what type of license, by the way, because we are licensed for what we are doing?) and insured (which we are), we pass muster even if the ethics is questionable?
If a person doesn’t have a sense of honour, what good will licenses, bonds and insurances do? If the guy runs with your cash, the license board will try to fine whomever if can grab before trying to get you your money back.
The insurance will do their utmost to dodge your claim, and the bind is typically never enough to pay everyone.
In the end, Big E was licensed and bonded, was it not? Remember Long Term Investment?
Sure, some people went to jail, but what good does that do you if you lost your money? The ones that profited were the crooks, the state and the lawyers.
Thus, in regards to the honesty of c-gold, I tend to keep my promises and don’t think that people who actually deal with us - and have been doing so for the past 16 years - are much in doubt about that.
And, as I said, I am not turning blind eyes anywhere. If you have a complaint, by all means tell me about it and chances are that we will act swiftly. But you need to do better than mentioning a first name and claiming him to be a customer of ours and a scammer of sorts.
Tell me WHO scammed, WHAT and HOW, and then give me some evidence. Show me how someone took your money. Give me copies of emails or something. Then I CAN actually do something.
You seem to forget that when I accept ANYBODY’s money for a service that I am under obligation to provide that service unless he or she breaks our TOS, ie. scams someone. So unless I have evidence that someone does/did scam someone else using our services, I CAN NOT do anything.
I mean WHO IS ANDY and what has he done using our services? And sorry if I am meant to know this, I really don’t. Running businesses and answering posts takes most of my waking moments these days.
Cheers,
Robert.
by C4G
In response to this….
—————————————————-
Dave, you wrote “They have also openly stated the business is located outside of the United States in the Republic of the Seychelles with their main headquarters located in Penang, Malaysia. Both details do check out and the servers are not located inside the United States as well.”
WHERE do those details check out? Where have you seen proof that they are registered to conduct the business that they are conducting?
Brenda
———————————————————-
In case you haven’t read through the article and the comments on this thread (as usual, you pick and choose what you want to argue about)… I’ve shown no support towards C-Gold, in fact I’ve shown the opposite.
Once again Brenda, I will remind you. I am *not* a legal authority. The information was compiled from C-gold’s website, whether it is true or not is not for me to decide. I just dissemnate information as it is presented to the public and pepper it with my personal opinions.
Again, instead of taking one paragraph out of context and wielding it against me in some hope of instigating an argument, I implore you to read the article and the comments and then comment on it in a realistic manner, not in some attack mode manner you are well known for.
Once again - You are *not* a legal representative, nor am I, an article presents information for people who read it to make up their own minds. Unlike you, I do not try to control the thoughts and actions of my blog readers or forum members because I’m no better than anybody else, neither are you. I’ve had my arguments with you back and forth over the last year, and yes, I do think you are a very intelligent person, however, I think you are squandering your most valuable commodity (your intelligence) and IMHO that’s a real shame. Even worse is Pam now sucking up to Dave (Okosh) on his new forum… Lol, Cattyshaq and WWSN were just copies of Scam.com, like the world really needs another anti-scam forum like Okosh’s — btw, I haven’t seen you, Pam, Okosh, Napoleon, DL Cooper, etc (all you scam busters) post your real pictures in your avatars like we do on C4G (you might have noticed, both Pluggy and Saxifrage have joined us, and Pluggy posts his real pic just like all the C4G mods Paul, Sandra, Ricky, Sasa, Christina and myself)
You could really make a good living on the internet if you gave up this hyip/surf/scammer/etc crap and did something that you believe in because you’re bright and charismatic enough to get people to follow you. Paul and I have recently launched numerous new sites that have *nothing* to do with hyip/surf/scams - we went to what we’re interested in. Also, if you haven’t noticed, Dave, Paul, Sandra, Ricky and I are all restructuring C4G forums and getting rid of the hyip/surf/gpt garbage and starting to focus on real ideas to make money like blogging, publishing, stock market, etc….
by C4G
one more think Brenda. I’ve posted you these lyrics from the English band Sham69 before.. Even though jimmy Pursey wrote them back in 1979, they stii have a timeless quality to them an are applicable to my trying to urge you to give up your foolish ways of seeing to make enemies and engaging them in useless diatribe. Maybe, if you’re as smart as i think you are, you’ll take this to heart….
Sham 69:You’re A Better Man Than I
Can you judge a man by the way he wears his hair
Can you read his mind by the clothes that he wears
Can you see a fat man by the pattern on his tie
Then mister you’re a better man than I
Mister you’re a better man than I
Could you tell a wise man by the way he speaks or spells
Is this more important than the stories that he tells
And call a man a fool if for wealth he doesn’t strive
Then mister you’re a better man than I
Mister you’re a better man than I
Can you condemn a man if your faith he doesn’t hold
Say the colour of his skin is the colour of his soul
Can you say that men for king and country all must die
Then mister you’re a better man than I
Mister you’re a better man than I
by cattysha
He’s singing to me again *blush*
Dave we might get along if you didn’t have to be right all the time…
My question was innocent enough. And YES, I did read all of your comments. I found this page when I was Googling around trying to find verification about c-gold. I WAS LOOKING FOR VERIFICATION OF LICENSE. I’m not sure why it got under your skin that I only asked where you got your verification. Well maybe I do…but that would be just the sort of thing that would get be banned from your blog…
Yeah, yeah, y’all are one big happy family, posting your own pics as avatars. It you hadn’t banned me, I might have considered it.
by C4G
Brenda,
I did not find any verification of license for C-Gold because the site responsible for that disseminating that information is only in Malaysian and I can’t read Malaysian. However C-Gold’s claim to be operating outside of the US with their offices in Malaysia and servers outside of the US is true. I’m not an expert on world legal issues so I can’t honestly say if they need a license or not.
speaking of licenses as “money transmitters”, are you aware that Paypal is *only* licensed in 8 US states as of 2007 (you can find that info on the BBB.org site listing for Payapal). They have applications in other states, but still, a company like Paypal that is a “teflon payment procesor” doesn’t seem to fall in the same boat as others. I’d say they have more than significant time and resources to get licensed. Plus, Paypal is one of the biggest sources of consumer fraud in the world but you don’t see the DOJ knocking on their door requesting their records.
I personally think C-Gold is a scam because their anonymous domain registrationa and hosting business that cloaks people like Andy from XLO (now running FX-Ofer and XLOTwo with his CEP(ish) payment processor CybespaceATM is just wrong. If they are willing to take money in one facet of their business from scammers who wish to remain anonymous, well, why would they do any different with their C-Gold processor. It’s illogical that they would adhere to their pablam (mantra) they have been pushing on TG forums. Plus, the fact they are even promoting their processor on TG has it’s implications , but that’s another tired old story and not worth rehashing.
by cattysha
What is the name of the hosting company? Do you mean the same people who run c-gold, also host scams?
by C4G
The hosting company is cyberica.net -
If you look at the whois from Andy’s (The XLentopps Scammer) domain thecyberspaceatm.com…
Billing
CyberFrontier Registry
CyberFrontier Registry
registry@cyberica.net
Cyfro Associates Sdn Bhd 3A-4-07 BJ Complex
Bayan Baru, Penang 11900 MY
+1.046462019
(FAX)
Go to cyberica.net and look at the “privacy hosting” tab (it’s the same deal as Katz Global). Oh btw, you’re going to love this one Brenda. InfiniteMultiplicity, 6K-Finance and Treetop Invest were all clients of Cyberica.
I personally don’t care what they do as far as their hosting is concerned (it’s just a business), but if the owner of C-Gold (and Cyfro Associates aka cyberica) “Robert” is going to openly state that C-Gold will be “not allowing ponzi schemes”, yet he is hosting them, IMHO that’s an ethical issue. If he tries to say “he doesn’t know how to spot one” in regards to hosting them, then how will he know how to spot them as a payment processor.
You know my personal opinion regarding online ponzi games. If people want to engage in them and play them, that’s their own business (I personally no longer bother with them). I’m not talking about any *legalities* or the ramifiations of *legal* or *illegal* issues. I believe in freedom and freedom of choice to do with your money what you want. However, I am merely presenting an opinion with this article because I found it hypocritical to see what Robert posted on TalkShit forums regarding C-Gold not allowing ponzis.
by cattysha
Thanks, Dave!
Well, this is interesting indeed. How does one trust that he won’t try to profit from online crime, when he’s already doing it?
by C4G
Brenda,
It is not our responsiblity. Human beings need to be responsible for their own actions, and as good willed as your intentions are, the majority will *never* listen to logic or reason and especially avoid those with prior experience thinking they have an inside track on the game. That’s the unfortunate state of human awareness. You can show people, you can tell people, yet it’s not unlike casting pearls unto swine in most situations. There are those people few and far between who use logic and reason and base their decisons on others’ experience. In my own case, I was turning a deaf ear to detractors when I honestly believed in some of these programs and had to learn the hard way. yeah, it cost me almost $5K, but I did adhere to the rule of “do not play with more than you can afford to lose” and although my losses stung, it didn’t put my life or my families financial situation into jeopardy.
I think that’s still the most important ethic to pass on. Don’t play with more than you can afford to lose. Otherwise, who is a scammer? who is a criminal? well, that’s up to the government to decide, NOT US….. And the government doesn’t seem to be doing a good job of it considering they haven’t bagged Bob Krimm yet.
btw, C-Gold is never going to catch on, it’s like when you were focued on IM, Devil’s Dollars or Wolfunds. Once again, I had told you look to Bob Krimm and Andy from XLO. God knows you can do your research, so why not get up on those real criminals and stop their efforts.
I will repeat, those who say “it is a game and you might lose” are different from those who say “your money is guarantted”… in that respect, you might also follow Jack Cobb (Maximumsurf, PlanetTrust, MaximumAdz) - and follow Jake Amedee from ASA (Asamonitor.com) and Mrs. Vee — those are the biggest scammers out there right now. C-Gold is a drop in the bucket compared to the ASA bunch.
by Robert
People, people, people,
“Andy”, “XLO”, anybody have any names, domains, websites, email addresses? It’s very easy to point fingers, but darn hard for us to actually follow up on things when all we get are vague first names. The only “Andy” I know operates LondonGoldExchange.com and I have dealt with him long enough to be just about willing to vouch for his honesty and reliability.
So please, DO TELL, who is Andy, what did he do, how wwere you involved, what happened? Then I can ask the hosting guys what is going on and can revert back to you.
Now, in regards to general principle (ethics, even) Cyberica.NET host anybody and everybody that complies by our T.O.S.
If someone is a crook, and there is a legitimate complaint, they get shut down in a hurry. If a site is still operational, chances are we got no complaints. I am not involved much in the day-to-day operations of hosting anymore, but this policy hasn’t changed.
You C4G say that you lost $5,000 which you couldn’t afford to lose, which suggests that you are rightfully peeved at the entire industry. But at the same time, you accept that if we hosted crooks that that wouldn’t make US crooks in itself, until someone told us about it and we turned a blind eye…
Now, once again, tell us details, please, and I will look into it personally.
On an aside, and the people this is addressed to know what I am talking about, DDOSsing two cyberica servers for the first time in four years, won’t really hurt us one bit. We are by far too large for that. What you are achieving with it though, is that the people who host on those machines are ALL suffering. This makes you careless scum, akin to the worst scammers and frauds around.
The other side effect is of course that you are hardening our view of things and lead us to dig in and defend our customers at all costs - which is probably the exact opposite of what you want to achieve.
The smart thing to do, would be to tell us who caused you grief, and then allow us take action.
As to c-gold.com, it’ll probably be around forever. Reason being, we don’t care one bit about ponzis, pyramid scammers, etc. in the existing DGC market, but are interested in expanding it to areas and regions that never heard of anything remotely related. And we are focusing on offline franchise shops and agents in those areas.
And in regards to my postings on the TalkGold list, well, I am posting here as well, and at three other sites. I’ll post anywhere c-gold is being discussed, really.
In the end, these postings are one of the many things that make c-gold different from all other providers, we talk to customers openly and defend our decissions in public fora, rather than acting and not telling anyone anything.
No hard feelings guys, but you are taking your own losses out on us, because we are listening and replying, isn’t it?
Cheers,
Robert.
by Robert
By the way, regarding thecyberspaceatm.com, who registered their domain name through U2Planet, apparently, why are they a scam?
Their site looks as if they are offering some sort of DGC storage service or something, and they say to be FinCEN registered. Also, it seems they aren’t exchanging themselves but ask users to use the services of third party exchangers, who would have to ID their clients in line with whatever the rules are in their jurisdiction.
So far so good. Now, did anybody here use thecyberspaceatm.com and was being ripped off in any way, and if so, when, how and what?
Please understand that we do need some data and a formal complaint before we can do anything. Otherwise we’d be in breach of contract…
Cheers,
Robert.
by cattysha
I don’t think Krimm could get much more of a spotlight, do you?
http://www.10news.com/news/13430401/detail.html
Dave, one day you will stop calling them ‘games’. If you must use the word game, try ‘con game’.
And it’s not about how much you are willing to lose. It’s about how much you are willing to take from the losers. The clueless ones…the ones who believe they have an equal chance.
by Robert
Cattysha, did this guy host with us, or is this unrelated?
He certainly didn’t use c-gold ;o)
Another thing that gave me halt (although I admittely don’t really understand how ‘autosurf’ programs are supposed to work), is that the victim says he invested $1,000 and then looked at a few sites a day and after 15 days had 50% profit.
Before that he says he lost $80,000.
Are those $80,000 what he invested (that would have to be a heck of a lot of sites to look at everyday), or is that his investment and compounded profits of several people over an extended period of time?
Please don’t get me wrong, I am really trying to make sense of it all, and the 10News site doesn’t really help much with that…
Cheers,
Robert.
by C4G
In response to this….
—————————————————-
Dave, one day you will stop calling them ‘games’. If you must use the word game, try ‘con game’.
And it’s not about how much you are willing to lose. It’s about how much you are willing to take from the losers. The clueless ones…the ones who believe they have an equal chance.
Brenda
———————————————————-
Brenda, every single day across the United States people walk into convenience stores and purchase lottery tickets. Some people win, some people lose. Some buy more tickets than others. The gross sum of money collected in each weekly drawing doesn’t amount to what is paid out to winners. In addition, winners have an option to take a lump sum at 60% or receive yearly payments. If that’s not a crooked “game”, I don’t know what is…
Additionally, each and every day, people walk into casinos and put money in slot machines or buy chips to be used at the blackjack table, etc… I guess most *gullible* people think they have an *equal chance* of winning. (FYI, I have a real slot machine in my house and it can be programmed to payout at certain intervals - hello??)…
What is the difference between somebody playing an hyip game online? Easy - it’s not *government regulated* which means the corrupt US government doesn’t get their piece of the pie.
You have once stated you needed to accept welfare when you were out of work (not dissing you on that, shit happens). However, you accepted government money. Were you aware that the money you took could have come from proceeds derived from people losing money on the lottery or from gambling taxation and regulation? hmmm…
Again, for an example, an autosurf program like 12DailyPro or a hyip like SolidInvestment that claim they can pay you x% per day for x amount of days *based on actual earnings* but is really paying old members with new members money is, IMHO, not a *game*.
Example B: a hyip that openly states, “this is a game, we will play to 90% payout, some will win, some will lose” is in no uncertain terms no different than the lottery or a casino except the government doesn’t have their fingers in the pie.
Understand ? There is a difference between an “investment” and a “game”. Additionally, there is a difference between a “game” and “gambling”. Sports betting, casino gambling etc have *fixed odds* meaning you get paid by a fixed structure based on your wager. This a legal loophole that hyip games slip out of by merit of their not being fixed odds. Read any gambling legislation and you will see the term fixed odds used quite often as a definition of “gambling”.
Regarding the US government taking away people’s rights and freedom on the internet to do with what they want with their money because of losers who get greedy and get screwed is ridiculous. There’s already too much government encroaching into people’s private lives already and there have been numerous victims of the governments invasion of privacy using Bush’s Patriot Act.
For example… Here’s a true story about a West Virginia couple who were awarded $80,000 because they were arrested at a GWB speech for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/08/17/feds_pay_80000_to_co.html
Guess who pays for that? OK, I guess they’ll just take it out of the West Virginia lottery
or maybe the feds will use the money they stole from 1MDC users to pay that off… btw, what do you think about our government stealing people’s funds like they did with 1MDC ??? I don’t care how you try to argue it, there were legit funds in those frozen E-Gold accounts. You are aware there are people who are actual gold traders who have used DGC’s for legit storage of gold and our government knows it because they’ve seen the price of gold rising since 2002 like it did in 1980 (read my most recent post today about Gold Futures)….
@Robert - If you don’t know what an autosurf is and you’ve been around DGC’s, you’re either dumb or lying. If it’s the former, not the latter, here you go…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autosurf
by cattysha
Yeah, yeah, the big bad casinos, and the US government. *rolls eyes*
To illustrate just how DIFFERENT scams are from casinos, have you been following the CEP Trust court case?
http://cattyshaq.com/forum/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3485
The receiver has put their business on the street. There aren’t very many ‘believers’ left after getting a look at where the money went…to the scammers friends and relatives.
Casinos are a game of chance. HYIPs play with a marked deck.
Anywho…we have hijacked Robert’s discussion. Perhaps we should comment on c-gold.
I don’t think it will last.
by Robert
C4G, there is a third alternative to dumb and lying, namely ‘busy’. I am around DGCs as you put it since 1999, and in the new media business since 1991 - ie. since before there was a web. On top of that, we actually promoted PPC and PPV programs for several years in the early days of the web, and were involved in hundreds of affiliate programs.
It is in fact that involvement that lead ultimately to the formation of CyFroCA$H INC (www.cyfrocash.com).
But since then (and at the time there were no autosurfs as far as I recall), I didn’t pay much attention to that side of things anymore, as we were entering plenty of other fields.
Now, thanks for the wiki link. Reading up on Autosurfs, I am inclined to modify the policies of both cyberica and c-gold.
Namely we will NOT host autosurfs on shared servers, but c-gold WILL accept autosurf programs.
This is because the concept sounds like it takes a lot of server resources (re hosting), and because autosurf programs semm to be a good way for people to earn a few a bucks (re c-gold).
Please note that we wouldn’t allow autosurfs that are only generating revenue from membership fees, as these are obvious ponzis.
Cheers,
Robert.
by C4G
Robert,
After being involved with various autosurfs since 2005, I can tell you up front, there has never been an autosurf program that is or was legitimate. Regardless of what they claim, they are all ponzis. As Brenda mentioned, CEP owners Trevor and Clayton claimed they were investing funds through a Forex trader and in other investments but they were really piggybacking on other autosurfs as their investment mechanism.
Additionally, Andy from XLOtwo / the FXOffer / TheCyberSpaceAtm (who you host his sites) has openly admitted on ASA forums that his programs are ponzis plain and simple and not an investment of any kind.
I primarly had joined such programs to promote websites and used minimum upgrades to keep my sites in rotation, but the majority of people get suckered in by people like Jake Amedee of ASA who pumps his downline to go in big because he has had soe sort of phone or personal contact with the program owner.
Honestly, C-Gold will have the same issues as E-Gold if it accepts autosurfs or hyips.
Otherwise if you build your business to be a storage mechanism for people wishing to purchase real Gold for investment reasons, you’ll have a better chance of avoiding the scenario E-Gold has fallen into.
@Brenda, casinos play with marked decks as well. they are in business to make money not lose money. Remember that the odds are always in the “houses” favour.
by Robert
C4G, thanks for the info regarding autosurfs. As to TheCyberSpaceATM and the mysterious Andy, we don’t host the sites as far as I can tell. We did register the domain name of TheCyberSpaceATM, apparently, but as I said in a previous post, I can’t see where it offers any profits, investments, etc. Looks to me as if it’s offering to store DGC, which is essentially a good thing as it adds protection against the phishing epidemic?
Indeed, we launched CyberGoldBank with a similar view all those months ago…
Anyway this will be my last post for a while, because I do have a few other things to attend to, and the whole attempt to show some transparancy and get involved through public posts was probably a bad idea. So far it ahsn’t yielded anything positive, but got us attacked, ddossed, etc. instead.
Cheers,
Robert.
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by C4G
Doesn’t look like C-Gold.com website is working anymore. Haven’t been able to access it for three days now.
by Robert
It’s been up throughout under https://
There is also a lot of information available
at www.c-gold.ws/invboard/ and we are still
the DGC that responds to user questions ;o)
by goldseeker05
A lot has been said about c-gold. I knew about c-gold yesterday . After browsing through the web I’m beginning to learn more. Anyway I would like to congratulate Robert for making it happen.
As this topic is all about trustworthiness and legitimacy of c-gold. I can assure everyone that as far as Cyfro Associates is cobecerned, they can be trusted. I’ve been dealing with them for a few years online. Never met or spoken to them. But over the years of doing business with them, never had any problem at all.
Once again Rpbert, congratulations. Will be supporting c-gold as much as I’ve been supporting e-gold amn e-dinar.
by Fabian
my views on c-gold, well, let me return to you about that in a couple of years, if its still around, i might consider it, but for now, no!
by C4G
It looks like C-gold is out of business. Seems their site is gone, supposedly it’s something to do with the domain registration and/or a DDOS attack but all of the Cyberica sites are down right now.
by Brad
Holy Smokes! I didn’t even realize that E-Gold was a scam! Now it’s got a scam clone? I need to stay up on this stuff. I am going to re-read this post and search your site for starters. Thanks.
by EW
Thanks for your article, Now there is more reason to comment than ever before! This is a great fir for our project!